Was Muhammad Ali really that great?

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By S.Graveson

Questioning the legend

To the eyes of many boxing fans Muhammad Ali, the man known to many as “The Greatest” is infallible. His word is gospel, his skill unquestionable, his losses have been excused for various reasons and his out of the ring behaviour has been forgotten about (and won't be covered in this article). Various historical points have been re-written or papered over, though was Ali really “The Greatest”?

Was a young Ali lucky to have gotten the win over Doug Jones?
See all 3 photos
Was a young Ali lucky to have gotten the win over Doug Jones?

Pre-title controversies

Born Cassius Clay 1942, he would make a name for himself after winning a Gold Olympic medal in the 1960 Olympic games as a skilled and swift teenager. It wasn't until Clay, as he was still known, fought Doug Jones that the first controversy comes into the fighters career. Clay would take a unanimous decision from the judges against the experienced Jones who had taken the great Harold Johnson 15 rounds in a Light Heavyweight title fight. Although Clay had won the fight on the official cards the, unofficial scorers working ring side for the press had the fight for Jones (of the 25 ringside polled 13 thought Jones had won, 10 went for Clay and 2 for a draw). Included in those scoring it for Jones were the Associated Press and the Oakland Tribune. (Source boxrec.com).

If the Jones fight showed the Clay wasn't perfect the fight afterwards showed his opponents could lie as well. Clay would travel over to England to face Henry Cooper. Cooper would drop Clay at the very end of round 4. The Cooper fans (not the Ali/Clay fans) have listened to Cooper talk about this moment for the better part of 50 years and if you listen to “Our 'enry” he'd have you believe that Clay was out on the canvas, and needed Angelo Dundee (Clay's trainer) to cut his glove and buy him a lot of free time. In all honesty Clay was down for a count of 3 or 4 and was in his corner with in seconds. Although their was damage to his glove it took a few seconds (not minutes) to sort out with the referee who said it was fine to carry on with the same pair of gloves. This can be seen on footage of the fight which is all over the interet.

Were the Nation of Islam (whom Ali, Centre, had joined) really the reason that Liston lost the second fight? Or was it Walcott's ineptitude as a referee?
Were the Nation of Islam (whom Ali, Centre, had joined) really the reason that Liston lost the second fight? Or was it Walcott's ineptitude as a referee?

Liston and the easy defences

The controversy over both Liston fights is something that will almost certainly never completely sorted. Though Liston certainly did injure his arm in the first fight and medical documentation did show this. The rumour about the fight being a fix just simply doesn't make any sense. Yes Liston had mob links and was a very heavy betting favourite, though if it was going to be fixed Liston and his corner tried to stop Ali winning enough to make it look liuke a genuine fight. In the 4th round Clay complained about being unable to see (and is visibly blinking in the fight film), this was due to a substance put onto Listons gloves by Joe Pollino. What the specific substance was is up for debate though it definitely had an effect on Clay. It wasn't petrol as some seem to claim (many have said “but people could smell petrol”) it was almost certainly a medical substance.
The second fight is also thought to have been thrown, though this is even more laughable. Clay, now known as Ali, landed the infamous “phantom punch”, a punch that many in attendance didn't see that put Liston down. Although the fact that it was a quick punch that didn't seem to land flush many Ali fans claim that Liston just lay down and let the referee count. What actually happened was that after Liston went down Jersey Joe Walcott was unable to get Ali into a neutral corner. Until Ali was in a neutral corner NO count should have been started however the count was at 10 before Walcott realised. The fight was ended with both guys punching each other whilst stood up yet it was recorded as a KO (not a TKO). Walcott should have technically over-ruled the count (which was only told to him by Ring magazine editor Nat Fleischer). For this to have been a fix the mob would have had to pay for Walcott's ineptitude and Fleischer's interference as well as Ali not following the rules. Sometime after the fight Liston explained why he didn't get up:

“Ali knocked me down with a sharp punch. I was down but not hurt. Ali is waiting to hit me, the ref can’t control him. I have to put one knee and one glove on the canvas to get up. You know Ali is a nut. You can tell what a normal man is going to do but you can’t tell what a nut is going to do and Ali is a nut.”

Something that's hard for modern day boxing fans to accept is the level of heavyweight talent out there, however it wasn't too much better in Ali's day. If a fighter such as a Klitschko brothers defended their titles against guys with record like 34-11-2, 33-11-1 and 35-12 they would be slated, though these were 3 of Ali's defences in a row (the teak tough George Chuvalo and British pair Henry Cooper and Brian London). It's often misremembered that Ali only fought elite fighters, and whilst Chuvalo was as tough as they come, Cooper and London wouldn't have been near world title fights in today's era.

Should Smokin' Joe Frazier have been 3-0 against Ali?
Should Smokin' Joe Frazier have been 3-0 against Ali?

Norton, Frazier and the rest

Having come back to sport after his forced absence that was controversially enforced due to Ali refusing the draft many fans speculated as to what those 3 years robbed Ali of. Though no body will ever know for sure, what is known is that by the time he returned to the ring Joe Frazier was “the man” of the division. Although Ali was the peoples champion he was a title-less champion. Frazier, had he been fighting today, would have been dubbed a paper champion, though when the two faced off and Frazier won many felt that was the start of the end for Ali, though as fans discovered later in his career, Ali just couldn't cope with that style and it showed 2 years later when he met his second major problem. Frazier of course is the better known problem, the guy seemed to have a deep hatred for Ali, though Ken Norton didn't have that hatred. Norton would break Ali's jaw early in the fight then appear to win a close by clear victory. Some how the judges saw it as only a split decision for Norton. 6 months later the two men rematched and Ali claimed a split decision in a fight many fans watching felt Norton should have won. The news reporters at the venue felt it was close (8 going for Ali, 6 for Norton and a draw) though at least one of those scoring the fight unofficially seemed to have lost their glasses (as they scored it 9-2 to Ali). Ali would fight Norton a 3rd time 3 years later and would again get the decision, this time Ali was defending his WBC and WBA heavyweight titles. The decision was massively disputed though history needs to be added into this. Ali wasn't only a global star of the sport, though he was also the champion, no heavyweight champion had lost the title by a decision since James J Braddock beat Max Baer in the 1930's (over 40 years previous). Was Ali “defended” as the champion, from losing a close decision?

Though perhaps it's the second Frazier fight that riles fans the most. Ali's way of neutralising Joe's work up close saw him pushing down on Frazier's head, a tactic that referee Tony Perez allowed Ali to get away from. This effectively stopped Frazier from using his power in close and caused Perez to be given a number of complaints from Eddie Futch and Frazier's corner. Had Frazier been allowed to fight his style the close decision that Ali won may well have been a loss. The 3rd Ali-Frazier fight, dubbed “The Thriller in Manilla” also has a very controversial ending. Ali had asked Dundee to cut his gloves (effectively saying “I quit”) had it not been for Futch stopping Frazier due to damage to his eye, history may have been looking at a very different recollection of Ali. It's very plausible that Ali could have gone 0-3 against both Frazier and Norton, not the 2-1 he got against both.

By 1978 Ali had gotten very lazy in training. He was facing relatively easy defences such as Richard Dunn, the 16 fight novice Alfredo Evangelista, the poor Jean-Pierre Coopman and it was probably this that lead him to his most embarrassing loss, a decision loss to Leon Spinks. Spinks was in just his 8th fight as a professional contest and out scored Ali with a split decision. Although it appeared that Spinks just over-whelmed an ageing disinterested Ali one of the judges, seemingly wanting to stick with tradition, scored the fight for Ali. In a rematch a more motivated Ali regained his WBA title from Spinks, though that should have been it, that should have been when he retired for good. Instead Ali retired for just 2 years before making an ill fated comeback.

In Ali's come back he would lose to Larry Holmes, the Easton Assassin becoming the only man to stop Ali. The fight should never have been allowed, though the following year Ali was trotted out to face Trevor Berbick and suffer another loss. Although Ali's record of 56-5 is an impressive one, it could have been very different had some results gone the other way. Had he not made his ill fated comeback he would have been 56-3 a very impressive record, though had he lost the close fights he'd have been 51-10 (losses in the 3 Norton and Frazier fights as well as Doug Jones) a much less memorable ledger.

Is Ali really the greatest?

  • Yes, the best ever
  • The best heavyweight ever
  • Top 5 Heavyweight
  • No. Over-rated guy who got too many gift decisions.
See results without voting

Comments

Robert Griffith10 profile image

Robert Griffith10 16 months ago

Good Article. I think with the American athletic caste system in place people gat abit carried away with Ali. He was in my opinion a great fighter. No doubt about it. However due to his attitude the left leaning media took him and made a icon out of him. While a great fighter, I believe that the current crop of beasts from Eastern Europe would handle him. My children have heroes like the Klitschko's, Danny Green, Michael Katsidis, Kelly Pavlik, etc. They coud keep Ali for someone elses hero in my opinion.

druhepkins profile image

druhepkins Level 2 Commenter 15 months ago

Though I have a different opinion---good hub. I will concede that when boxing finds a hero, they tend to build a legend around him to a certain extent. Regardless, I feel Ali was worth the hype for a variety of reasons.

And Robert Griffith, this was an age of boxing in which no one would know who the Klitschkos were. This is boxing's Golden age of heavyweights. You don't have to go too far back for the Klitschko's, Vitali already got rocked by Lennox Lewis.

This age of boxing is nothing like now--- the fat and reachless Sam Peters or Chris Arreola, the guys who are really light heavyweights or cruiser weights like Haye, Tarver and Ademek---but hey, why not---no one's here anyway---or dinosaurs like Ruiz that the Klitchkos get to tower over and outbox. This was the age of big men heavyweights. Big George Foreman, Big Ken Norten, Relentless Frasier with the mean left, the fast and athletic ALi. And ALL these guys had chins and wind and could go the distance. Dude, I'm sorry the Klitschko's and guys you mentioned would be totally lost in this age of boxing.

gconeyhiden profile image

gconeyhiden Level 3 Commenter 3 months ago

I remember my bro talking about a brash young fighter coming up who was different then the rest. he was talking about Clay when he had maybe 15 pro fights. many said his style of leaning away wouldnt cut it in the pros against stiff opposition. doug jones was a very good fighter and Clays toughest trial on way up but he showed he had toughness as well as speed. I think Ali ranks at the very top of heavyweight boxers as far as actual boxing goes because his style could beat any kind of fighter while many couldnt adjust..but your right about Ali's defensive tactics and im guessing he would have lost points to a ref like the one in the Khan fight who took two big points for shoving off. I think in his prime..whenever that was..he could have taken a win off of any heavyweight champ including Joe Louis. I think its fair to say Joe lost to walcott first time around. the fact he beat two of the best punchers of his day by KO like ten years or so apart I think says alot. then to beat joe frazier a great fighter in his own right who never lost but to foreman well thats great competition. I dont know if he is #1 or #5 but i know there will never be another fighter in the heavyweight division like him. he was so fast. yeah norton was one tough dude and holmes made sure never to get in the ring with him again. so much for holmes. Ali should have quit after the last frazier fight. his skills were of a youthful sort and his wars took their toll. I was at the last norton fight and i knew ali was in trouble before the first bell because i saw him days before sparring down at wall street and he seemed too slow for the Ali i knew and loved to watch. I wish he quit sooner..i hated to see him getting beat up by guys he could have danced rings around and popped at will.

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